Oluwatosin Oludayo - Entering The Business Analyst Sphere

In this episode of the Ekasi Podcast, host Julian Mashingaidze welcomes Oluwatosin Oludayo, a seasoned business analyst, mentor, and respected thought leader in the world of business analysis. With an academic background in Entrepreneurship and Innovation from the University of Edinburgh Business School, Oluwatosin has built an impressive career across major public-sector institutions, including the Scottish Government and the London Borough of Hillingdon. He now steps into an exciting new chapter with the NHS Business Services Authority.

Oluwatosin’s influence extends far beyond his professional roles. As the co‑founder of BA Sphere Scotland, he has helped mentor more than 100 Black professionals transitioning into tech, leading impactful webinars, fellowship programmes, and community initiatives. His dedication to empowerment and representation has made him a standout figure both within and beyond the Mastercard Foundation community.

Julian and Oluwatosin explore his journey into business analysis, the pivotal role the Mastercard Foundation played in shaping his path, and the lessons he has learned while building a career rooted in service, leadership, and community upliftment.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Welcome to the You Can See Podcast, and I'm your host, Julian. And today I'm joined by Tu She and he is an incredible guest that we have on today. He's a seasoned business analyst, mentor, and a thought leadership in the field of business analysts. He has a wealth of experience planning from the Scottish government to the London Moral of Lingden, all the way into an exciting new role he's about to start unhearders of Monday as an NHS business service authority worker. Outside of his professional work, he's also a dedicated mentor and community leader. And he's co-founded BA Spirit Scotland, where he has played a key role in the mentorship of over 100 Black professionals who are all seeking to transition into tech organizing impactful webinars and fellowship programs. So he is certainly a community hero and a man who has made a name for himself outside of the MasterCard Foundation. Today we'll be understanding some of his journey into his field as well as how the MasterCard Foundation played a key role in what he does now. So join me in welcoming our guest, Toshin.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Thank you very much, Julian, for that kind introduction. My name is Tosin. Like Julian rightly mentioned, um, I will be starting a new role as a senior business analyst with the NHSBSA. Um currently, which is today's like officially my last working day with the Scottish government, I work as one of the product BAs. And part of the work has been like to design benefits for the citizens of Scotland. And prior to that, I was working as an ICT business analyst with the London Borough of Linden. And I do a number of business analysis training for organizations in Scotland, um, you know, England, and also in Canada. I'm really excited talking to people about business analysis, how to break into the space, what to do to really distinguish themselves, and much more importantly, you know, discussing about challenges we face and how we can use collective genius to address all of that. Really excited to be here once again.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Um, just before we started this recording, you were telling me about how you've just traveled in from Rome. So I'm hoping the jet lag ain't too much as we just go into this discussion.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

No, not at all. I mean, there's really no time difference. I think it's just one hard difference between Rome and Edinburgh. So I think I'm really very fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

That's a world away from cold Edinburgh, but but anyway, um, I guess the first question we always just want to kind of ask throughout this is just tell us your story. How did you end up coming to Edinburgh and becoming a MasterCard scholar? What were your experiences?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Oh, when I finished my university in 2027, 2017, the 2018 year about, you know, how had Holly's had this intent of how to go forward for further education. So, because my background is in petroleum engineering, I was looking for quite a number of opportunities in engineering. So I remember I'd applied to a number of scholarships just trying to apply for things in whether it's you know um sustainable energy or trying to do something around petroleum engineering or in environmental engineering, just anything that you know could be built on my course in petroleum engineering. So I'd applied to a couple of scholarships, but there wasn't like nothing was forthcoming. So after like a year, I got a role um as a business analyst in an organization in Nigeria, in an engineering organization. So I started like doing some beat-up things around like business development and strategy, and that was really looking very interesting. So I remember doing my third attempt applying to MasterCard Scholarship. I'd applied previously to Africa and International Development, I'd applied to sustainable energy in one of the schools of engineering. And the reason I was looking at this wide range of programs was because I believe personally that postgraduate education is not so much of what you studied as much as the ability you develop in knowing how to solve problems, in knowing how to analyze issues and being able to come up with solutions. So whether my part is to go through the route of environmental engineering or it was to study another course, I believe there's something about that education that is going to widen my thinking. And I was really very keen to that. So after I'd applied to like Masterclass Scholarship like twice, doing my third attendance, I just had some bits of reflection and I asked myself, what do I really truly want? Right. I was reflecting about my experiences and I remember there was a research assistant role I was doing part-time with an organization called Blue Advisory. In that role, I was asked to interview some startup organizations just to like know what challenges do they have in terms of their growth and what is like stifling them, you know, in really like innovating and becoming a much bigger organization. In the course of my interviews with quite a number of companies, the same issue were coming up again and again. I realized that many of these organizations, some had been operating for like 10, 15 years, but they were probably just like two staff or three staff. Many of them were struggling in their finances. Um, there were no funding, they were not innovating, they were just they were struggling. So when I dived the band and I started asking them questions, I realized that many of them, even though they knew the idea of entrepreneurship in their head and they believed they were entrepreneurs, I feel like there was some basic knowledge, basic fundamental that were missing. No management board, they were not attending any training, they just knew things in their heads, and there was nobody that was there that was really advising them. And I realized that hey, I think this is a major problem because this is not just a problem with these set of people I've you know I have interviewed all across like different parts of Nigeria when I was doing some beat up my research. I realized there were quite millions of people in this same boat where they were in this cycle of action but just little productivity. And I thought to myself, I think this is a problem and I can solve. So when I started reflecting about my previous experiences when I was in the University of Lagos, how I was doing different business cases, competitions, I was attending courses. No, I think I had done probably more than 100 online courses, just doing things around business and management. So things were making sense to me. I think I have been building skill sets in this area without necessarily knowing I was building skill sets in that area. A couple with my current job experience, you know, at that time where I was working as a business analyst with that oil and gas company. So it made sense for me to connect all of that story together. Hey, I think this is a problem. This is what I'm currently doing, this is what I have done before. And I think with my master's in the University of Edinburgh studying entrepreneurship and innovation, this is how I see it like better fortifying me to be able to solve this problem. And entrepreneurship and innovation had quite a number of very interesting cost models from you know building a new venture to like you know entrepreneurship and new venture to courses in finance and accountancy, you know, and also to like working on some consultants and project, which was going to like be a platform to bring everything together. And I said, Oh, really interesting. So I built my case to your application, and somehow I got you know his thoughts into like the interview. Then I was able to like get that in terms of you know what I experience has been since starting that program, it's been a lot of eye opener for me, you know, being in the class where there are people from like different nationalities. I think in my class a little, there were colleagues from China, from Germany, from Scotland here, people from England, different parts of the world, you know, where they had different lived experiences. We might be looking at a single case in class, and people are looking at it from the lens of this is what it looks like in my country. I'm like, oh, I've never heard of it like this before. And all of those things were literally shifting perspective, you're just opening your eye to see oh, this is what this is like in this place. For example, um, while I knew in Nigeria, for example, because of my background in petroleum engineering, that climate change is an issue, because I knew about gas flaring. Gas flaring is a very major topic within my course in petroleum engineering. I really didn't know there were so many conversations going on on global platforms around how this you know should be solved. These are the conversations that are happening that are shifting investment, shifting you know, fundings, shifting grants, shifting uh even organizations are positioning themselves. But that sort of like education gives you that sort of like global awareness that this is what this thing is like in China, this is what this is like in Nigeria, then you are able to marry all of that together, and plus the number of different you know conversations, just chats here and there, that I just realized that I didn't know this is a major issue in this place, this is a major conversation that I need to tread very carefully when you're talking about. I think all of that has really been very much helpful for me. So I think if I backtrack, um, even though my initial goal was I could do any course just to like gain that um ability to solve problems, but when I started reflecting more about my experiences, I realized that the entrepreneurship and innovation program at the University of Edinburgh was more aligned to my my interests, my previous experiences, and I was able to build my kids together and applying for the scholarship.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Thank you, thank you. That is just such a rich wealth of information you've just given back. And I kind of also just like how you transitioned from petroleum engineering into business and innovation, which in a way are different subjects, but some of the core skills do marry up, which in a way are different subjects, but some of the core skills do marry up, which from what you're talking about is just analyzing complex problems and just breaking them down into ways that people can kind of just understand and help. I also just wanted to explore a little bit in a little bit more detail your experience with startup companies, especially within the African context. Um, I know you're Nigerian, I'm Zamalwin, and I guess a lot of these companies come up with big ideas and they start off with energy and they might get a little bit of funding to start off with. But it's there's always this issue where business models fail to sustain themselves, especially in an African context. And I've had friends who've kind of come up with ideas and solutions which haven't always run out through through their life cycle. And I guess my question is around like with your experience, both before and after becoming a MasterCard scholar, what are some of the practical steps that some of these startups can take to ensure that they are viable post like the first year?

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Um, I think the very first thing I think they can do differently is in terms of knowledge acquisition. You know, there's this sort of like pride you see that comes with entrepreneurship sometimes. People would think that it because they are in the field they are doing, they know better than people who are reading. And, you know, while there might be some bit of sense in the aspect of when you do something practically, maybe there are some aspects or there are some perspective you gain that somebody who is not doing it but just reading about it could know. For example, somebody might tell you you can read all you can about love, but if you've not been in a situation where you have you have to love somebody who has hurt you, you wouldn't know what it means. So while I know that there is experiential knowledge and there's also practical knowledge, but I think there's a place where the two of them can you know intersect and really produce very fruits, um good outcomes. So I think the very first one is in terms of knowledge acquisition. Just because you are an entrepreneur doesn't really mean that you shouldn't read, you shouldn't speak with you know, look for use cases of people who are trying to solve the kind of problem you are trying to solve, right? So I think that that is one of the pride I've noticed in some of you know people who run entrepreneurial ventures, just thinking that by virtue of running something, they don't need to read. Um, but I think what they can do differently is you know, just picking up materials, look for use cases, look for textbooks where people have explained some concepts. You realize that some of the guys who write some of these books, they've examined like hundreds and probably thousands of companies like yourself who have been doing the same kind of things you feel so passionate about, and they've been able to like see different pitfalls, you know, here and there that I think that think this might be an issue for you that you need to deal with. And one of the things that I think people are also like doing at the moment, too, is also to like intentionally looking for community. You know, when one of the things I've found about communities that I think are really very potent is this how they meet somebody, you know, who looks like you, somebody who you know have some kind of experiences you have where they can tell you this is my pain. I was at the same point you were in last year, two years ago, five years ago. This is exactly how I went around like addressing some of these problems. Um, building in so in silo, building in isolation is never going to be so much helpful. Community holys as a way of like you know, just having a way of bridging the gap between what you know and what you should know, between what you are doing and how you should be doing them, you know, between what you have and what you can have, people sharing different experiences, you know, about different like funding organizations, about different investors, how to like better position yourselves. I think those are some of the things I think community always provides. So intentionally looking for those communities, I think it's something that Holys like could help in you know, um, in helping those organizations not to fail within their first year or even with their first five years, that some you know, research will show that you know, within the first five years, about 90% of startup companies always like fail. So looking for that community could also be very much helpful, and that community could also come from applying for accelerator programs or incubator programs where other entrepreneurs like yourself are within that same space and circle with you, and people who have built something really very sustainable or built something that is enduring time, and also in that spaces where you can glean from their experiences. And I think maybe one final thing to also like say um is in itself, I don't think that failure is a very bad thing. Um, sometimes you will always have people who have built successful ventures that will tell you my first one was not the most successful one, um, but it taught me a lot of things that is helping me in this more successful one that I'm doing. So um, I think being afraid to fail, being afraid to make mistakes is in itself a mistake in itself. So I think when you start, just know that yes, I'm going to give my best to this, I'm going to learn, I'm going to reflect on my learnings, I'm going to document things I'm learning. But if it goes that this fails, um, I'm going to go again, right? And just picking up on things I've learned and then being able to build upon everything. And I think if you try to tie everything back, seeking for knowledge that looking for use cases or materials or case studies similar to what I'm trying to do, or something in parallel with that, and going for that knowledge, not just basing everything on what I know. This is my own experience, this is how I think it's the right thing, but trying to get perspective for other individuals who are doing something similar or who have done something similar, or even something completely different, but trying to understand the stories behind that and decisions, tough points they've had, and how they navigated that could be helpful. Looking for communities, whether communities of people like yourself or maybe from incubators or fellowship programs, and being a part of it, engaging with it to like network and meet with people, and then more intentionally um, you know, make mistakes, learning from them, documenting them, but knowing that whatever happens after giving my best, we're going to go over again. I think those are things I think might be somewhat helpful um, you know, in managing that first year or first five-year cough of failure.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Well, thank you. And I think one of the most powerful things you said during that was being scared or having a fear of making a mistake is a mistake in itself. And I think that kind of talks about most stories I read, where it's like sometimes someone's big ideas in their first or their second idea, but it's their third idea, which is a refinement of the first two, and just that willingness to keep on going at something time and time and time again, not being afraid to fall down. So I think that's really powerful. Something else that I also just want to touch on is just like communities. Like you touched on how like the best ideas, the most successful innovations, the most successful companies all come from just having a community. And I think it's a really good form and create one, but sometimes it is can be difficult, especially in a competitive world, to start to form those connections. I don't know what your thoughts are on that, but so I guess my question is how can we better as a society both start to try and foster these communities where we try and have people succeed at their maximum?

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Okay, yeah, it is it is an interesting question. Um, I wouldn't call myself the best of network at two. Um, I mean, the event I've been to where I literally just sat at the back and I just spoke to one person, then I zoomed off. Um, but I think that's why for some personalities, it's really very much easier for them, especially guys who are more extroverted, just to like go to places and start conversations. But I think where some of them maybe always drop things is at the point of now that I've spoken with these persons, most of the things sometimes always die there and they don't take it up from there. Um, I think one of the things I'm learning to practice um some more now is I know my threshold as an introverted person that I'm more likely to want to stay at home. But if I push myself to go to a networking event, I think to me I have done something worthwhile. So I pack myself at the back that this is good. Maybe the next time I'll try to speak to the person that is sitting beside me and just have some conversations. And I think that um just building those little tiny bit of steps for ourselves, especially for people who are more introverted, just knowing that it's not like doing it the way Julian is doing his own that is the ultimate definer of networking, but just me taking those little bits of steps in terms of this is where I used to call my comfort zone. Now I'm stretching myself a little bit outside of it. I think that might be a good starting point. But beyond that is also the idea that's knowing that we have something to share with people. Um, sometimes we might be too big on I don't want to say the wrong thing, I don't want to come off the wrong way to people that we just keep to ourselves all day long. One of the things I've learned is sometimes people are not paying attention to every single thing you are saying. So when you think they are judging you, sometimes they might not even be hearing that thing you think is wrong. So they might be more interested in your person than in the very tiniest of details of what you're saying. So I think just trying to train myself to take my eyes from myself to knowing that this is a conversation with the people who maybe there might just be something so simple in what I'm saying that might you know spark their interest that would be the conversation that is much more fulfilling to them than me being overly concerned about every single thing about what I'm trying to say. I think the major point I'm just trying to draw there is the more we take our eyes away from myself and just trying to see that nobody might be trying to judge me. Um, that might also like help some of us to like free ourselves. I think one other thing which is a very good practice is you know, people talk a lot about it. Sometimes when we hear some things again and again, they might seem like they are overrated, but sometimes those things are undirected, which is the power of listening. When we listen to people, when we allow people who have something to say to say what they are saying, we realize that in what they are saying, there are many thoughts that if we decide to pick them up one by one, we have so much to talk about. So sometimes just genuinely listening to people, genuinely listening to their stories, genuinely listening to what they are talking about, we realize that it could be like something that could allow us to have a very lengthy conversation. And one lastly, more importantly, for me is I always try to think about um, you know, this is what this person has said to me. Is there any part of it that's looks like a problem that they have that I think I can recommend solution? For example, within my space as a business analyst, when you meet people today, for example, if you listen to them talk about their struggles, they could tell you I've been having issues just passing my interviews. Um, that might not be the core of what they are trying to really talk to you about. That and but when you just listen deeply, you realize I think this person has a problem in this area, and then if he has a little bit of question around that, you realize I can often open up bigger and broader conversations, and then that's sometimes where I'm able to point them to like this organization that is always providing XYZ kind of training that you might want to explore. There is a resource I came about on LinkedIn that you might probably want to check out, you know, and then you see that that little part of just listening to them, listening to their pains, and then offering them solutions. It's it means sometimes so much to them that they realize that this person wasn't just listening for listening's sake, they were listening to what I'm saying and able to like offer solution. Um, of course, I'm not saying that every time we listen to people, we should listen for problems or pains and what they are saying so that we don't always go into solution mode. Sometimes some things are just best as conversations, people venting out their pains to you. Sometimes it's a lot more relieving to them than you giving them like 20-30 advice on how to like solve that. So I think just um for people who are very introverted, just defining those little little bit of steps that I think I will do this. I've done this today, tomorrow I'll try to do this. That could probably help us come out of that interaction, and then listening to people you know preferring solutions, but not always going to solution one could also be helpful in terms of allowing community to really help us to like get the best out of ourselves. One of the beliefs I have about community is you know, community in themselves will not benefit you if you don't engage with it. Um, a lot of values out of community they are drawn out by engagement. So, if for example, you join like a group, say a LinkedIn group or a WhatsApp group that people are constantly sharing ideas about say business analysis, or people are constantly sharing ideas about funding, just being there and looking at things, it will not in itself benefit you. But when you begin to engage, when you begin to ask questions, when you begin to send people like messages, hey, you mentioned something like this. Are you happy to explain this for that? Can I jump on a call with you for you to explain this further to me? You realize that you. Are already trying to extract the juice out of the raw material in itself, and I think that's when it becomes really very helpful. So just standing aloof, looking at things happening with nothing self benefit you if you don't engage with it. And of course, there are different strategies for engagement. Engagement could be you commending people who are doing something, you know. Um, because as you find out, we human beings, as you know, Gary Sharpman would say, we all love our love languages. There are people who feel so excited when engagement compliments is really very awesome stuff, just keep it up. Now feel like this person finds my work really interesting, and maybe I can form a stronger bond with this person. There are other people that maybe what appeal to them is something else, but just knowing that human beings have different ways they want to be engaged about their works is really something good. I think another thing I have noticed about engaging with people, um is people have some people prefer you to jump on a call with them than sending them a lengthy message. For example, um, if I share an idea about something and then you write me a very long email, um, I probably won't feel so excited about it as if and then if we jump on the call and then we have that conversation, we walk through the things you're talking about. Some other persons probably prefer you to to write you something long, not jumping on the call, too. I think the point I'm just trying to say is when it comes to engaging with people, knowing that they have preferences, is something that might be helpful. And of course, it is hard to know what somebody might like just by looking at them. Sometimes you need to ask, How would you prefer we take this thing for that? And then that is always like helpful. So I think the world point I'm trying to make is when it comes to community, in terms of maximizing them to you know, to have optimal in order to maximize them for them to really bring out the best of juice they have is by engaging. And engaging with community means we are engaging with the people, engaging with the ideas, and then trying to find the best way individuals within those communities want to be engaged, whether they want to jump on the call, whether they wanted to send them a charts, whether they want whatever it is, just trying to find that. I think that might be a way for us to get uttermost values out of them for our personal and personal growth and development.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Oh, thank you, thank you. A lot of rich information you've just divulged there. And I think one of the things that that resonated with me is that thing where you overthink a conversation. Like I've had this incident where I'm like, oh no, was I really direct with that question I asked? Um I guess community is one of those things that it can take time to build, but as you say, you actually have to actively make an effort to engage with it and ask the right questions and show interest in people around your involvement in BA Sphere is one of the rocks who started that. I guess I just wanted to learn a little bit more about your motivation in starting it. And what have been some of the challenges with having it in?

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, very, very interesting question, Julian. Um, so BA Sphere, um, if I can remember, I was in London that time. Um, that was for my role as an ICTB when um the wife of one of my fellow MasterCard colleagues just contacted me. Hey, Tossing. She's the business analyst. And in fact, what led me into business analysis in the UK was because of a conversation I had with her. So when we nearly came, um um, so when we nearly came, I had spoken with her and she asked me what I wanted to do after school. And mind you, she's the wife of my fellow MasterCard colleague. So thank God for a good working relationship with everyone and being able to speak with her. And she told me the pathway to becoming a BA here in the UK. Slightly different from how I ventured into business analysis in Nigeria. So she spoke with me, then I held the advice, and then I put them to use, and then I was able to get a role. So when I started the job in London, she just called me in a hey to saying, I have this idea. It's about building a community to support maybe black professionals or people in general who would like to venture into business analysis. And beyond that, um, she mentioned some challenges she was facing, and she thinks that if there is a community of other business analysts, we could always ask questions, maybe whether we need the templates or whether we're trying to work on a challenging project, we don't know how to go around it. We could find out community support, you know, find those like people who are done something similar that could give us guidance. One thing about business analysis is it's always project-based. So today, your company could be doing a migration project another time, they could be trying to implement a learning management system yet another time. They could be doing something around process improvements, but the frameworks, the way of thinking around them, they're always very similar. It does not matter if they did a migration project in the University of Oxford, if the University of Edinburgh is trying to do something similar, the thought processes are going to be similar. The nuances there might be nuances here and there, but the frameworks, the way we think about it, will be almost the same. So when she told me about the idea, I felt like, oh, interesting. I would like to be a part of it. I think that's one of the things I probably would like to emphasize that sometimes it doesn't only have to be your idea. If you see something that is like a big, like a good, credible solution for your problem that many people are facing, it's good to be a part of it, even if you're a volunteer. It doesn't have to be I'm going to start my own, I'm going to start pushing out my own stuff. So I joined her and then we started. So initially, the plan we had was let's just create like a community, and then we started having like a lot of conversations locked up back and forth. And like, okay, now that we have this community, I think there are other ways we could create values. And I think that's one interesting thing about an idea. It starts from point A, but before you know it, it could branch to point Y, branch to point Z. And when we started, I realized that hey, I think we can do fellowship programs on where we can train people to become BAs beyond just provide support to them. And the reason for that was we had done like a survey of the market, we realize that people charge different amounts of money for training business analysis, and the journey to becoming a BA is very expensive. So you want to become a trainer here in the UK. Some guys can charge you 2000 pounds that they will train you for three months. Some other persons might say they'll charge you 1,000 pounds, some other persons might say we'll charge you two thousand dollars, three thousand dollars, just depending on the amount, and you cannot guarantee the standard. So we're like, we think we can do something as good or even better, or even free or even for a much lower price. So that was what led us into like starting our first fellowship program. So we trained like 14 persons over like three-month period, just trying to expose them to different aspects of business analysis, sharing our challenges, kind of projects we work on, and helping them to think through you know their own tool. And with time, we were expanding to other areas that we're trying to like, you know, really like do. So I think the be all of that be's first story is it was an idea from a friend about a problem that is prevalent within our space. I felt was interesting. I joined and then we started with that. Now I am looking to like do something different from what we are currently doing, and that's the fact that the journey to becoming a B based on my exploration, it's really quite expensive. For example, you pay a lot of money to start even the training itself, which could range from like 450 pounds to like 2000 pounds. When you do your training, you then need somebody to coach you again. Again, that could charge from like 300 pounds to almost like 2000 pounds, depending on who you find and how much you are able to negotiate. If you want somebody to help you review your CV, prepare you for interview, that is going to cost you some money again. If you want to prepare for certification, that is going to cost you anywhere from like 200 to almost like my company paid close to 10,000 pounds for me. I don't think that is what something an average person you know might be able to afford. And that's because of the training providers that provide deliver some of these trainings. And then when you get your job, you want to start looking for a senior role. It's also very expensive getting somebody to hold you by the hand to walk through that journey. So then I'm thinking, I think I can do something with AI to really disrupt this whole expensive journey of this business analysis. For example, if AI comes into picture where we have to like train people, you know, charge 2,000 pounds. If there's a way we could literally find it, I think there is something we can do within that. Even if AI is not the go to technology, there could be something we could do with technology that could make the journey far less expensive than an average person could do. And I thought, beyond business analysis, I think I can do the same journey for other career pathways. For example, project management is also very expensive. Again, you look for somebody to train you, look for somebody to mentor you, look for somebody to prepare you for certification, look for somebody to hold you by the hand when you want to start applying for senior rules. I'm like, we can do something with technology that people don't have to pay this much. And if you look away from project management, you see other fields to like say you want to become a product manager, you want to become a data analyst, you want to become this same model that can be used to disrupt everything. And I also thought to myself, say, I want to move from a business analyst to become a climate consultant. What is the pathway like for me? There are not so much conversations around that. If I want to move from business analysis to I want now and now want to become a strategy consultant, I want to become an investment banker, what is the pathway? And so part of the things I've been thinking around exploring is how can we build that end-to-end journey and then build products around it that can literally move people from point A to point B without having to spend so much money. So it's a much bigger project that I think we're trying to do now, building on what we've currently done with BSW. But just to like backtrack in terms of what led us into it, it's just to like provide a community and then bringing people together. But we've seen that there is more to that than just creating that community. So there are other more interesting problems that we can solve, and that is like what I'm trying to like spend more of my time on, just trying to think around it. Challenges we are facing are really quite interesting. Um, of course, there is a tech constraint. I am a B, I'm not really very, very technical. So trying to get somebody a more technical partner who can join you on board is an interesting one. Um, sometimes you need like um either make them co-founders too because of the time investment. Um, because the idea wasn't idea of BS where it's not exactly my own in the first place. So it means there needs to be conversation amongst myself, the main idea originator, trying to like see that we need to like open up this ownership to other persons to join us. Funding is also something we are looking at. Again, we need to have a very strong, compelling case that this is something we need to explore. But beyond that, the kind of visa I am on does not permit me to like really run a business. So if I want to do that, um to be able to run a business beyond 20 hours. So if I want to do that, I need I need to switch my visa or I need to wait till I get my ILR or get a co-founder that already has ILR and able to like work without any constraints. So that's something we are trying to work around. And lastly, is because the space in itself is it looks slightly competitive at the moment. They are very big major players that see able to like put their name out and they have the resources to do everything. But you are a small guy just trying to find your way around it, and you know, those are some of the things that I'm trying to like work around. But I believe it's a problem that you know looks interesting. But like I mentioned, even if we try to do it and it fails, I know there is so much to learn that will always be applicable in another context of things that we're trying to do. So that's where we are at within that space.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Thank you, thank you. That is actually so inspiring, and I think it kind of talks that aspect about how, as people, we're all really dynamic and we change and we grow, and as we develop into people, we have different interests. Like it might start off like your journey from being an engineer to being a BA, but that might morph into something towards sustainability or strategy. But sometimes the often the greatest limitation we have is the institutions or structures in place which almost have access levels due to costs, and the way that BA is trying to just deal with that is just so awe-inspiring. And I guess it's one of those lessons where sometimes like a disruptor is just that something that disrupts a system, and it can often start as small, but it can just kind of help shape the system together. So, no, no, no, thank you for sharing that. And I can I'm I'm sure a lot of people out here will resonate with some of the challenges. I guess as we kind of shift towards the graduate of this discussion, which kind of flown by the next focus is honestly just trying to reflect about your own personal journey. When you started this journey straight out of high school, where did you imagine you'd be? And what advice would you give to your young self? Because I think often it's one of those things where for me coming out of high school, you always have like big dreams, big ideas, but you're not always sure what the roadmap to getting them is. The opposite end of the scale for you, and they're just starting their scholarship journey. What are some of the key tips you'd give them in terms of just staying diligent and just looking for opportunities, whether that's in Nigeria or that's abroad?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Um, yeah, very, very tough question. You know, coincidentally, I was watching a TED Talk, and then they were like, when we when we ask people to reflect, it's almost like you're trying to look at your life, play back from behind, and then you're like, um, there are just so many details that you won't see, but at the high level, there are things you would say, remember and wish you I wish I did this differently. Um, but I think the other bigger philosophical question is if I change this part of my past, how would I know it would not have affected this part in my future? But, anyways, um, I think the much um to answer the question more directly, when I was growing up, my thoughts were I was going to be a pilot. Then at some point I felt I was going to be a lecturer, and then I was going to be an engineer. In fact, the petroleum engineering I studied in school, I had so when I was in high school, I was the best student in chemistry, physics, mathematics, for that math. But I really didn't know exactly what I wanted to do with my life because my parents were not educated, so there weren't that immediate support network of this is what we look forward to. And the environment we grew up to was not one where there were many people who were educated. So you had people who were doing small businesses to sustain themselves, but that was like the highest that we could see. Um, but because I always like listen to people talk sometimes in class, so I heard one of my classmates one day talking about petroleum engineering. Like, what does it mean? Like, we'll make a lot of oil money. Like, ah, because of that, I'm going to do this, you know. But my natural strength was in mathematics. I wish I had gone ahead to study mathematics. But I think one of the things I was just going to like say in terms of that reflection to my younger self is um while it's good sometimes to you know listen to people, and you know, it's also sometimes I know it's very difficult as young people to say we want to reflect because we're really just so young that we I don't think we had that much capacity to reflect. Um I think sometimes just learning to learning to put things in our hearts, not just acting on them immediately, but just putting something in your heart and just brooding on them. I think that thing is really so powerful that we don't know so much about the potential it has. Um, sometimes when I want to do something, even as an adult, when I put it in my heart and I stay with it for some days, sometimes I realize that I think this thing I'm feeling initially was just something trying to push me to act. But over time I realize that it is not as really interesting as I thought it was, and thank God I didn't act on it impulsively as when I thought. So I would say that learning to put things in our heart as a young people, I think it's really something that is good. But in putting things in your heart is when you begin to like see it unfold to like other things, and you realize okay, while I like something, I don't really think it is this one that I like, but I know I like something like this, but not really this particular one. So that impulsiveness, um, by learning to just exercise some bit of patience, we can learn to deal with it. I think secondly, is while I can give an excuse that yes, my parents were not so educated, um, they didn't tell me a lot about career pathways. Why that excuse could stand for some point after some particular when you cross beyond a particular age, it no longer becomes an excuse anybody wants to hear. And so the point there is, even though my biological parents were not really as exposed, I wouldn't say that in church there were no people who are so educated I could have spoken to to ask them, What do you think about carrier pathways? What paths can I follow? I think the point I'm just trying to say to advise your younger self is some excuses are understandable, but they are not really something that everybody in the world will always clap for you about that yes, this is correct. You have to explore options that you have, speak to a lot of people. Um, one of the things I advise people who are trying to break into business analysis is don't speak to only myself because I'm a BA. Go find other BAs, speak with them, understand their perspective. And more recently, I've started telling people business analysis is not the only career pathway that leads to fulfillment. Within my Scrum team, there are product owners, there are product managers, they are user researchers, they are product designers, they are service designers, they are service managers, there are different career paths, and all of them are always so happy and excited. So the point I'm just trying to say is just because one thing is so popular doesn't mean that it's all there is to it. Just because one person is always sharing their opinion does not mean that is the only opinion you have to listen to. So you have to be intentional, listen to as many people as possible so that you can get perspective. And I think perspective is really very important in life when you are able to see things from multiple lenses and then you're able to know that yes, um, even though I decide to do it this way, I am not ignorant of the other possibilities that also like exist. So looking for other alternatives, looking for other people to advise you, I think it's really something that's very good. I think more importantly, is I would say for my younger self, um, the process of learning is probably more significant than what exactly it is that you are learning. So again, when we're growing up, you know, um, I would storybooks. Storybook is not related to engineering that I studied in school, but there's something about knowing, reading people that are able to sustain their thoughts from A to Z together that is really helpful when you are really doing anything in life. So you are able to stand in front of people, you want to give a five-minute speech, you are also able to hold your thoughts and then you're able to speak coherently. I think that is something really very good. Um, reading storybook was not related to any of my engineering mathematics courses, but there was something about knowing this is how to write a good essay, this is how to express myself. There's something it does to you in terms of how it makes opportunities to flow in your direction. You could be a very smart guy, but if you speak poorly, people will salute me that this guy can solve this calculus question or this differential question. But when it comes to representing the school, um giving you a microphone, nobody will want to do that. And as you will find out, talent is everywhere, but there are not too many opportunities everywhere. So, um, but again, the point I'm trying to emphasize is the process of learning, just doing something that is teaching you something is probably superior to what you are learning exactly. Because what you are learning couldn't um the thing in itself might not be relevant after some times again, but that discipline to learn it is something that will stay with you that will help you much longer. So I think it wouldn't have mattered whether I studied engineering in school or mathematics or computer science or philosophy. Um, I would think that if I had if I was probably more concerned about what the process, I think it would have been so much helpful. And MasterCard, they didn't say because I did engineering, I can't apply for entrepreneurship. They just wanted to like know what have you done with your life, right? What have we done to impact your community? What is your story? They were more concerned about that story, and that is what has brought us so far. So, for anyone out there, um, I think the pain for you is not that you did not study a fanciful course, but even with what you study, what have you done with it? What have you learned, right? What are you learning? What discipline are you putting in place and you know, trying to like do all of that? More recently, I started watching a lot of tech talk. Um, it's not because I want to become a a third speaker, maybe tomorrow, but it's just something about that process of learning again that I think it does something to you. So today, when I want to write on LinkedIn, I could look at business analysis from the lens of life and say, Okay, uh, this is what I saw in this place. For example, somebody was talking about what you would what what what stories do we tell ourselves about ourselves? So it is not what happened to you, but what do you tell yourself about that thing? And I'm like, this is interesting. So there are times I do meetings at work, nobody asks me questions. It doesn't mean because I'm the black guy in the thing that they are they don't like me. It might mean that people did not just did not have any question. There are times people present I didn't have question for them. I was not doing any bad things about like I wasn't it wasn't a thing of discrimination, it was just a thing of I didn't have question. So those things were shifting my perspective. I did an interview, I didn't pass it. It was not a thing of oh, I'm a failure, just a thing of well, maybe I'm not the right candidate, I need to do better next time. So, again, the point I'm trying to say is two things that look disconnected, but by virtue of learning learning, you can see the point of intersection, then I'm able to bring that to business analysis, and people find it very relatable and they are able to learn from it. So, I think the point I'm just trying to say is the process of learning itself is a very solid one. So, regardless of what you studied, make sure you are learning, make sure you are building that discipline. And I think it would really stay with you. Um, maybe just like put a um a raptor it, or sometimes when people say they want to come to the UK, what course should I study? Should I study artificial intelligence? Should I study data science? Should I just study data analytics? I'm quick to always tell them that um why these courses are really very interesting and fanciful. In my own experience, these guys care more about what experiences do you have, what perspective are you bringing to the project than what you studied in school. So, again, I don't think it's much about what you study, except of course, we are talking about medical courses, whether nursing, medicine, and all of that, those might matter in getting a job. But I think when it's comes to like the general tech space, it is what have you learned, what have you learned, right? What projects have you done before? What experiences are you bringing? Not so much the particularity of. Business analytics, MSc, artificial intelligence, but what do you know? And I think that again it boils on to while I am in this direction, what am I doing with my life in that direction? And I think ultimately that is what I think is you know really matters. So just to like summarize everything I'm saying, I think that if I was to advise my younger self, I'll probably pay more attention to that process of learning in itself than what exactly I'm learning. I will learn to put things in my heart to just hold on with some things, just brood about them. Um, I would know that there are really no excuses if my parents do not have something. My parents are not the only source of knowledge that exists in the world. There are people in my church, in other places, the parents of my classmates that are more intelligent that I can speak to. And so by being more proactive, you could really maximize all of that. And then lastly, is coming to the UK is not so much about what you are studying, as much as what experiences are you building there because of that program. And I think all of that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

No, no, thank you so much. Um, and those are some really truly inspiring words, and I guess um, from what I'm getting from it as well, is it's just being intentional and curious about things and yes, almost like having that process of experiences throughout it. But no, thank you so much, Toshion, for just joining me throughout this discussion and just offering your awful knowledge, and um just in terms of like your BA projects as well as BA sphere, like I hope all of them do go well. Um, it's been great to just have you on the podcast, and it's been a great listen from my point of view as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

So thank you so much. Yeah, thank you very much for the for the invitation to you know, um, just having conversations like this, I think there's something that they like they do to you. Um, many of us really don't reflect a lot, and you know, sometimes we are keen to look for more, but we don't know there is a lot that we already have that we can just brood on. I think just doing this with you is also making me reflect about my own journey and then seeing where I've come from, where I am, and then where I would like to be. And I'm sure if we are doing this podcast again, maybe in the next five years, I will have something new to just share about my career trajectory and whatever it is I'm doing at that point. But the principle still remains the same, putting things in hearts, brooding about them, and paying attention to what I'm learning, to the community I'm building, and then not being afraid to make mistakes. I think those are principles that I think would be helpful in what my next five years would also look like.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Um, we're gonna be keeping track of that with a keen interest. But thank you all, thank you everyone for listening, and do you tune in next time?